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"Home Lab" concerns

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Anyone else concerned that we paid good money for a nice server yet according to their pricing matrix it is implied that the "Home Lab" does not receive security updates unless you upgrade to the paid "Essential" plan.  I USED to think Antsle was the greatest thing since sliced bread, but lately I have been starting to regret my decision.

Hey mensan,

Thanks for posting. We do provide security updates on the Home Lab plan but not as frequently--typically once every 9 months. Until now we've grandfathered in ever original Antsle owner into the latest version of our software for free, whereas many other companies we know of will either charge a recurring fee for software or charge a license for a certain release and then once the next major release comes out you'd have to purchase that next license (i.e. Windows Server 2016-2019).

We've priced the entry-level plan at $29/month to make it pretty accessible for most people who need enhanced security and want to always be up to date.

Just as a peek behind the scenes, scanning the universe for all known vulnerabilities and integrating the patches into the various layers of the software stack is a significant amount of work and easily takes days of integration testing and followed by a rigorous QA process. So the frequent OS patches and upgrades are something that subscribers to the Business Plans make possible for the rest of the Antsle community--even if at a less regular interval. 

Hope that helps to clarify,

Johannes

As an original owner, early adopter, and someone who jumped on the edgeLinux (I paid for something in August two years ago related to that, but I'm honestly still not sure what I paid for and what benefit it was to me) test.  I'm kinda let down by this response.

Honestly I get the need and desire to monetize the product.

However I've suffered through the product growing pains as well.  In fact one of my machines was totally blown up by the 0.13.1 upgrade.  It still hasn't been able to upgrade due to 0.13.1 (stuck at 0.12) getting retracted, which if I recall was issued because of a security fix.  I had enough luck to get the instructions on how to restore the OS, not lose my VMs, and restore functionality.

Further, I figured I'd at least be able to sign my two existing machines on to the lab plan.  However it seems like I cannot get that plan without another antsle purchase.

I really don't think its much to ask that for a home/lab enthusiast the cost be a bit lower than $29/Month. I can get a year of office for less than that.

Hi haploheart,

your existing Antsles are automatically on the Home Lab plan, including the 10GB of free backup space. We are pushing this with the next fix

Quote from mensan on August 22, 2019, 2:19 pm

I USED to think Antsle was the greatest thing since sliced bread, but lately I have been starting to regret my decision.

I'm told by some others who lost faith that UnRaid and Proxmox run real well on the hardware. 🙂
I'm trying to stick with it.

Quote from haplopeart on August 26, 2019, 11:16 am

I'm told by some others who lost faith that UnRaid and Proxmox run real well on the hardware. 🙂
I'm trying to stick with it.

Yes, I'm in a similar boat. I've been a big proponent of edgeLinux and Antsle (I own the physical box as well as run multiple edgeLinux installs on custom hardware configurations), I've been an active and frequent contributor to both forums, and I've referred people to Antsle and been responsible for sales of their products and many downloads. I don't know that there is a bigger fan and supporter of Antsle out here...

I was super excited to see 2.0 be introduced, and I watched all the videos as they came out. It was quite a let down to see that this is essentially just Antman, under a paid plan, with some new UI features. I could be wrong, but it appears that Antsle owners map into the Home Lab plan, unless they wish to now start paying yearly for the Essential plan.

As a Home Lab plan user, I would even LOSE functionality because advanced networking is now gone, and it seems like I'll only get upgrades every 9 months. It's not clear, but I'm guessing that I'm still going to be limited in the number of antlets I can create and modify as an edgeLinux user. I fail to see how this is anything but a step backwards for existing owners.

The new "D" hardware looks nice, but I have yet to see specs comparing it to the XD or Avoton, so it's unclear what bump I'm getting. I am tempted by the D, but that feels like a slam that the old Avotons just weren't as great as Antsle kept touting they were.

The Essential plan seems like the equivalent of our old world, but the "catch" for me is that it's $29/CPU, which bumps up the price considerably, now on an annual basis. And I still don't get clustering or advanced networking. Again, a step backwards.

Honestly, I am on the edge of just abandoning Antsle completely and selling off everything I have. It's super sweet and cool, but this money grab is not sitting well with me. As early adopters, I think we deserve to be treated better. I don't see that happening.

It's time to bring out the Proxmox stick and wipe some hard drives... 🙁

Regarding the old Antsle One vs the new Antsle D:

The Antsle One (which I found this on Amazon) was:

  • Intel CPU @ 2.40 GHz, 4 Cores (Avoton C2550)
  • 8 GB GB ECC RAM
  • 2 x 250 GB SSD

While the new D is:

  • Intel Denverton C3558 4 Core, 2.2 GHz.
  • 32 GB DDR4 Registered ECC RAM
  • 500GB Internal Storage (raw capacity)

So the only differences are the processor (still 4 threads) and memory (32 GB vs 8 GB)

I thought the new D was supposed to be faster, but it appears to be slower?  I have an antsle one, but I can't check its specs directly until this weekend.

But Intel's site does show the C3558 is 2.2 GHz  ( https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/97937/intel-atom-processor-c3558-8m-cache-up-to-2-20-ghz.html )

while the Avoton is 2.4 GHz ( https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/77982/intel-atom-processor-c2550-2m-cache-2-40-ghz.html )

The C3558 does have more cache (8 MB vs 2 MB).

I hate to say it, but I agree that the overall "feel" of these changes is a step backwards.

But I see on the Products page they're quoting Steve Jobs.  So, maybe we shouldn't be surprised. 🙂

Quote from haplopeart on August 26, 2019, 10:46 am

Further, I figured I'd at least be able to sign my two existing machines on to the lab plan.  However it seems like I cannot get that plan without another antsle purchase.

Hi @haplopeart, is your understanding that your current Antsle servers can't get covered by the homelab plan unless you purchase another one?

Quote from ddmscott on August 27, 2019, 9:42 am
Quote from haplopeart on August 26, 2019, 10:46 am

Further, I figured I'd at least be able to sign my two existing machines on to the lab plan.  However it seems like I cannot get that plan without another antsle purchase.

Hi @haplopeart, is your understanding that your current Antsle servers can't get covered by the homelab plan unless you purchase another one?

That was clarified yesterday to be untrue, older equipment is "granfathered" as I now understand it.  HOWEVER, there is some pending update which needs to happen to activate that grandfathering.  Johannes jumped in and mentioned that yesterday.

This is however something that continues to concern me.  This isn't the first time they have made an update added a new feature/service, but then said OH Yeah, you older customers are covered/grandfather...or similar term, however you have to wait for some update or similar situation before its truly handled.  Don't release until you have all the ducks in a row.  I do this kind of stuff for a living, I'd get crucified (I have, and learned from it for that matter) if I released things in this manner.

Quote from lancem on August 27, 2019, 9:39 am

Regarding the old Antsle One vs the new Antsle D:

[...] I thought the new D was supposed to be faster, but it appears to be slower?  I have an antsle one, but I can't check its specs directly until this weekend.

Denverton is a newer revision of the same family, and technically is a step up. It's a 14nm (if I remember right) die and should perform better in multi-core applications. I know that the single-core Denvertons were incredibly disappointing (this circa 2017) and most homebrew folks said that they should avoid it like the plague. The multi-core should be faster than these Avoton's in the old Antsles.

I'd have to go find exact spec-for-spec comparisons, but they're hard to find. The additional memory probably offsets any CPU concerns.

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